So we had to leave. I stayed on in Hamburg, and we tried desperately to get out wherever possible. I mean every country had immigration laws, nobody wanted us, America had very strict quotas. I was on the waiting list for America as was everybody else. You gave your number and the number we knew we would be called upon in about four or five years time. We couldn't wait four or five years. Having a brother in Leeds at the time was an advantage - he worked very hard here to get me out. Eventually he did find me a trainee post and I managed to get a visa to come here, which I did February '39.
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